April 25, 2008
Ehrman and Wright on the Problem of Suffering
Posted by Ryan under Doubt, Philosophy, Religion, The Bible, TheodicyThe following exchange on beliefnet is worth checking out for those interested in the problem of suffering and evil, and how the biblical narrative addresses (or fails to address) it. Bart Ehrman is a former Christian and professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina who has recently authored God’s Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question–Why We Suffer. N.T. Wright is a biblical theologian, the Bishop of Durham, and the author of numerous books on the the historical Jesus and the early church, as well as, more relevant to this discussion, Evil and the Justice of God.
Their discussion is a very interesting one, although as always in this age-old issue, there are many questions that go unanswered. Both make compelling arguments and are persuasive to differing degrees on on various points. To be honest, I resonate more deeply with Ehrman’s obvious pain and bewilderment when he thinks about the sheer amount and variety of horrific pain in the world; Wright isn’t blithe about it, to be sure, but you really do get the sense that this is much more than an academic issue for Ehrman (again, not to suggest that this isn’t the case with Wright, just that it is more obvious with Ehrman in this exchange).
After reading this exchange, I’m left with the same question I had when I first saw the title of Ehrman’s book, and after reading the introduction to the book while waiting for a flight last month: Does he think he’s offering us some kind of new information? It’s hard for me to understand how a man as obviously intelligent and morally sensitive as Ehrman could imagine that he’s “discovered” something here - as if for most of two millennia of Christian history people had never witnessed horrific evil and wondered how it fit into their view of a good and powerful God; as if most of those who have lived with and under Scripture throughout history were under the misguided impression that the Bible provided an airtight argument explaining the philosophical problem of evil. At best, Ehrman’s book seems to be a chronicle of how he, personally, arrived at a place in his life where he found the disjunction between the existence of evil and his faith in God to be existentially untenable.
I’m intrigued by Ehrman because he’s so honest. Suffering is, simply, a massive problem, and he feels the full force of it. On top of that, he’s spent a good portion of his life in the Christian tradition as a pastor and an educator. His is not some ignorant dismissal of Christianity based on trolling around a few fundamentalist websites - he’s read his theology, he’s done his exegesis (although thinkers like Wright have major disagreements with his conclusions), and he’s spent decades of his life in the community of faith. No one can accuse him of not taking matters of faith seriously. It seems like the pain of the world has just become too much for him to bear.
As always, however, I’m left wondering what positive alternative Ehrman has substituted or would recommend substituting for the Christian view he has deemed insufficient for providing the biblical, philosophical, or existential resources for dealing with the problem of suffering. Wright touches on this quesstion briefly in his last post, but I think much more could be made of this. As many have pointed out, suffering and evil are only problems if you think you have good reasons to expect otherwise.
Unless I missed something obvious in the “blogalogue” (another wonderful technologically-fueled addition to our lexicon!), Ehrman doesn’t address this. I’ve not read his whole book, to be fair, so it’s possible that he does have some groundbreaking insight into this question (although I’m not too optimistic). From my perspective, it’s not worth sacrificing my own moral intelligibility for the sake of a very specifically conceived understanding of how a good God and evil fit together. As I’ve said elsewhere (probably too many times, by now), I just don’t see how things get better (logically or existentially) once God’s out of the picture.
Well (sigh) this was supposed to be a very brief post and is increasingly looking like, well… not that. I suppose I can’t help myself when it comes to this question - it’s something I spend a lot of time thinking about. I’ll simply conclude by recommending that you read what is a very interesting, engaging, and civilized exchange between Ehrman and Wright.
h/t: Mark Roberts via Ben Witherington
April 26, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Thanks for the link Ryan. I recently finished Ehrman’s book. I read his other popular book “Misquoting Jesus” as well. I am glad to have read both of them. Maybe the information in the book is not all that original as you say. For me, its the only book I have read that attempts to caterogize different views on the problem of evil in the Bible[maybe you've read few more]. As he mentions over and over in his book that most of the people he meets have simplistic answers to the problem of evil. Mostly the free will/best of all possible worlds argument comes up. I think that most Christians are not aware that the Bible does not speak coherently about the relationship between evil and the world.
I enjoyed the discussion between Ehrman and Wright even if I didn’t particularly enjoy the format. I hope they go beyond there three post limitation.
April 27, 2008 at 3:36 am
“As always, however, I’m left wondering what positive alternative Ehrman has substituted or would recommend substituting for the Christian view he has deemed insufficient for providing the biblical, philosophical, or existential resources for dealing with the problem of suffering.”
I don’t understand why you want a sufficient answer to the problem of evil to compete with an insufficient one (Christianity). If the Christian philosophy doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. What we need is sufficient alternatives to compete with each other.
But since we don’t have any sufficient explanation we’ll just have to admit we have no “answer” and commit to furthering the search for one with better questions.
We can only hope that we will eventually discover what are “good” reasons for our greater expectations. In the meantime, we’ll have to continue our reliance on the larger consensus of what is deemed ‘not-good’.
April 27, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Jerry,
The fact that Bart Ehrman (or anyone else) deems the Christian answer to the problem of evil ‘insufficient’ does not make it so (any more than my rejection of agnosticism or atheism as insufficient automatically disqualifies them).
And since Ehrman’s rejection of God is explicitly based on a moral impulse (how could God allow this?), it is fair to ask the question of what alternative source that impulse could have (especially in a world that is believed to be fundamentally amoral in its processes and their consequent phenomena).
I think it should go without saying that while many find the Christian answer to the problem of evil unsatisfactory, there are also many who find that it does answer (however provisionally) the deepest and most painful questions that life produces.
Surely the fact that we have highly educated, intelligent, sincere and compassionate people (Ehrman and Wright, among many others) coming to very different conclusions here makes any reference to a ‘consensus’ highly questionable.
April 28, 2008 at 3:41 pm
jc, you said:
“I think that most Christians are not aware that the Bible does not speak coherently about the relationship between evil and the world.”
I’m wondering if you mean “most Christians in my experience are not aware…” or “most Christians in general are not aware…” I would certainly agree that there are Christians whose knowledge of the Bible and its treatment of evil is fairly limited, but it’s equally obvious that there are many, many Christians who are well aware of the Bible’s “incoherent” account of evil and continue to find the Christian theodicy to be the most rationally and existentially satisfying one on offer.
In addition, I would obviously have questions about just how “incoherent” the Bible’s account of evil actually is. The mixed biblical picture that Ehrman is reacting against (sometimes evil is described as punishment, sometimes a non-negotiable feature of the human condition, etc) seems to be a fairly honest reflection of the way the world actually is. Some suffering is the direct result of human behaviour, some is inexplicable. If an airtight, rational account of evil isn’t available to anyone, I would at least prefer an account which reflects this reality.
(To be honest, I wonder how it took someone like Ehrman as long as it did to “discover” the Bible’s “incoherence” on the evil issue. I would think that this would be the kind of thing one notices long before the accumulation of a couple of graduate degrees and years in pastoral ministry.)
April 28, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Jerry,
“I don’t understand why you want a sufficient answer to the problem of evil to compete with an insufficient one (Christianity). If the Christian philosophy doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. What we need is sufficient alternatives to compete with each other.”
Everyone has a “sufficient answer” to the problem of evil even if this is only an implicit position that is parasitic upon the rejection of those deemed insufficient. Everyone lives by some story which claims to make enough moral sense of the world for them to live by. I’m simply asking people like Ehrman to be explicit about it.
“We can only hope that we will eventually discover what are “good” reasons for our greater expectations. In the meantime, we’ll have to continue our reliance on the larger consensus of what is deemed ‘not-good’.”
I don’t have enough faith for this.